[calvin plummers socks]

 Valley Blues, on 05 July 2024 - 11:29 AM, said:

How long do we think before Starmer?s given the boot and our new PM is Sadiq Khan?

Obviously never going to happen despite what the Russian Twitter bots say

[isleaiw1]

fishini, on 05 July 2024 - 11:54 AM, said:

People who get out and vote have the power. Those that don't vote have no power and no say. Yet they will be the first to moan. PR is good on paper but it doesn't offer stability, we would be having elections every few years. Like I have said before the population had the chance to bring it in but didn't want it.

So would you decline another vote on EU membership then forever?

PR has its downsides - but once you get past two main parties then its a must. If we are to encourage different and more radical ideas, we need to encourage more parties to have a chance of getting some seats - the current system promotes tinkering round the edges, appealing to those who dont do change or those who are more interested in political posturing than actions and outcomes.

[isleaiw1]

Bobby Darling, on 05 July 2024 - 11:55 AM, said:

You?re an idiot and it will be the last time I comment on your posts. You are obsessively unobjective about Labour. You post stuff frequently based on some imagined role in business that is frankly, if you were properly involved in generating wealth, risible. You thought you were smart creating ?the End of Labour? thread. You championed the charisma of Johnson. You are a pompous twit. A petty insult? Maybe. I can?t be done with you now. Maybe we might meet at a game and I can tell you face to face. Meantime please take down that ridiculous thread. Sorry for the vitriol but you stand for much that I don?t like. Put it down to my age.

Good thank god for that.

My post was entirely objective and factual, you are the one ignoring the facts and only seeing the bit you like. I started the thread for discussion and it has provoked a discussion and Labour have pulled it back, and got back to being electable. Helped by the Tories being unelectable.

I dont care if you ike me or not, by the way. I am old enough to realise that there are all sorts out there and you cant please all of the people all of the time. I'm happy I please those that matter to me. You, funnily enough, dont. You just dont like people disagreeing with you because only one opinion can ever be right - yours. If you see me at a game it will be as I walk away to talk to people who matter...

By the way, I'd stand and have a beer with Chris (and my former colleague the now Tory MP) because I judge people by their whole, not one bit.

PS still trying to work out if I am junior or middle manager.... how funny! Does it bother you that much?

PPS you never did comment on the analysis and explain why you thought they had done so well, beyond the number of seats they won.

This post has been edited by isleaiw1: Today, 12:55 PM

[CFC91]

As someone with a passing interest in politics nowadays (whom never put my Politics degree to any use at all) it is obvious by the fact the results can so easily be manipulated in different ways, with stark interpretations of the outcome from what is essentially the same set of numbers, that the voting system needs reform.

Be it Labours ridiculous majority with just 35% of the vote, Lib Debs over representation versus Reform and Green in terms of seats versus votes etc etc.

Also quite alarming how the overall Labour vote has dropped versus the previous two elections from 12m+ to sub 10m, and how despite this the swing has been so great.

I don't know too much about how FPTP can lead to this but from what I know about PR, it certainly feels much more democratic in terms of ensuring all corners of the spectrum are represented, whether you like it or not.

[azul]

As someone who is disappointed by Starmer?s caution I have to say that was a decent speech. The country already feels a lot calmer

[azul]

 CFC91, on 05 July 2024 - 01:03 PM, said:

As someone with a passing interest in politics nowadays (whom never put my Politics degree to any use at all) it is obvious by the fact the results can so easily be manipulated in different ways, with stark interpretations of the outcome from what is essentially the same set of numbers, that the voting system needs reform.

Be it Labours ridiculous majority with just 35% of the vote, Lib Debs over representation versus Reform and Green in terms of seats versus votes etc etc.

Also quite alarming how the overall Labour vote has dropped versus the previous two elections from 12m+ to sub 10m, and how despite this the swing has been so great.

I don't know too much about how FPTP can lead to this but from what I know about PR, it certainly feels much more democratic in terms of ensuring all corners of the spectrum are represented, whether you like it or not.

The losers will always call for PR. Interesting ?The King in the North? was promoting PR last night on the Sky Election Special. Ironic as the Tories changed the Mayoral Elections to TPTP from a PR system this year in attempt to make it more likely they win. Live by the sword die by it I suppose.

[Mr Mercury]

azul, on 05 July 2024 - 01:34 PM, said:

The losers will always call for PR. Interesting ?The King in the North? was promoting PR last night on the Sky Election Special. Ironic as the Tories changed the Mayoral Elections to TPTP from a PR system this year in attempt to make it more likely they win. Live by the sword die by it I suppose.

Interesting how Andy Burnham, what a waste of talent btw for the Labour Party him not being in Westminster, saw the significance of the misrepresentation of seats to actual votes when comparing the Lib Dem?s, Reform and the Greens.

[turrhall]

 HistoricWarwick, on 05 July 2024 - 11:54 AM, said:

PR = hung parliament after hung parliament after hung parliament. For all its flaws, US system works the best IMO - donkey or elephant?

Lol, how can you look at the US and possibly think that. Their system is even worse!

[azul]

 Mr Mercury, on 05 July 2024 - 01:41 PM, said:

Interesting how Andy Burnham, what a waste of talent btw for the Labour Party him not being in Westminster, saw the significance of the misrepresentation of seats to actual votes when comparing the Lib Dem?s, Reform and the Greens.

Think the people of Manchester don?t think he?s a waste of talent. Pretty plain to me that Starmer is going to harness the power of these metro mayors and devolve them more power. If Burnham had beat Corbyn and then lost out in a general election when the tide was going out he might have been lost to politics for good.

This post has been edited by azul: Today, 01:49 PM

[turrhall]

 azul, on 05 July 2024 - 01:48 PM, said:

Think the people of Manchester don?t think he?s a waste of talent. Pretty plain to me that Starmer is going to harness the power of these metro mayors and devolve them more power. If Burnham had beat Corbyn and then lost out in a general election when the tide was going out he might have been lost to politics for good.

I live in Greater Manchester, he's rubbish apart from the fact that he's noticed that the public transport infrastructure is badly organised. No other strings to his bow.

[azul]

 turrhall, on 05 July 2024 - 01:47 PM, said:

Lol, how can you look at the US and possibly think that. Their system is even worse!

50?000 hanging chads, criminals and senior citizens losing their marbles in executive office.

It?s a shining beacon

 turrhall, on 05 July 2024 - 01:53 PM, said:

I live in Greater Manchester, he's rubbish apart from the fact that he's noticed that the public transport infrastructure is badly organised. No other strings to his bow.

I?m not surprised you think he?s rubbish. Obviously you are in the minority.

[azul]

 turrhall, on 05 July 2024 - 01:53 PM, said:

I live in Greater Manchester, he's rubbish apart from the fact that he's noticed that the public transport infrastructure is badly organised. No other strings to his bow.

That alone elevates him to genius status

[turrhall]

 azul, on 05 July 2024 - 01:55 PM, said:

50?000 hanging chads, criminals and senior citizens losing their marbles in executive office.

It?s a shining beacon


I?m not surprised you think he?s rubbish. Obviously you are in the minority.

One in favour, one against - I'll take that.

TBF to Burnham, there's only so much you can do as a mayor, and public transport is marginally better now - but he gets a lot of praise for doing very little else

This post has been edited by turrhall: Today, 02:00 PM

[isleaiw1]

turrhall, on 05 July 2024 - 01:53 PM, said:

I live in Greater Manchester, he's rubbish apart from the fact that he's noticed that the public transport infrastructure is badly organised. No other strings to his bow.

Have they managed to get the tram extension and congestion charge in place yet? worked on that donkeys years ago. I thought it was a good idea and a great way to implement it, but alas the metropolitan boroughs eased back support when millions had been wasted because it suddenly became politically expedient to do wat the constituents thought they wanted....

[turrhall]

 isleaiw1, on 05 July 2024 - 02:00 PM, said:

Have they managed to get the tram extension and congestion charge in place yet? worked on that donkeys years ago. I thought it was a good idea and a great way to implement it, but alas the metropolitan boroughs eased back support when millions had been wasted because it suddenly became politically expedient to do wat the constituents thought they wanted....

They've more or less sacked off the congestion now, was meant to come into force last year/this year I think. As you say, due to high cost and, I think, the concern that it might become another ULEZ type issue with drivers.

They built an almost completely needless new line to the Trafford Centre when they'd have been better off allocating the resources elsewhere considering that the bus infrastructure already existed.

Capped bus prices and I think reduced number of operators on major routes (specifically the Oxford Road corridor, which was an absolute mess with 4 or 5 companies offering services), which are both good. Trams haven't really improved much, still way too expensive, they've just cracked down on fare dodging, which is more a case of treating the symptoms and not the cause, imo anyway.

This post has been edited by turrhall: Today, 02:08 PM

[Westbars Spireite]

isleaiw1, on 05 July 2024 - 02:00 PM, said:

Have they managed to get the tram extension and congestion charge in place yet? worked on that donkeys years ago. I thought it was a good idea and a great way to implement it, but alas the metropolitan boroughs eased back support when millions had been wasted because it suddenly became politically expedient to do wat the constituents thought they wanted....

When you drive into Greater Manchester (as I have to do now and again with customers up that way) you go through signs indicating an congestion/emissions zone but with 'suspended' below.