[calvin plummers socks]

Who are these clowns going to vote Reform?

[Valley Blues]

calvin plummers socks, on 14 June 2024 - 08:37 PM, said:

Who are these clowns going to vote Reform?

Are they as clownish as those who have admitted they would vote for a particular party regardless?

There?s varying degrees of good and bad in all parties but I?m sure I?ve read posts on here from folk stating there was nothing their party could do or say that would prevent them from voting for them.

Now that seems clownish.

[The Earl of Chesterfield]

Valley Blues, on 14 June 2024 - 10:17 PM, said:

Are they as clownish as those who have admitted they would vote for a particular party regardless?

There?s varying degrees of good and bad in all parties but I?m sure I?ve read posts on here from folk stating there was nothing their party could do or say that would prevent them from voting for them.

Now that seems clownish.

Fair enough call.

And I'd add dismissing Farage and his followers as "clowns" is dismissing the genuine threat they pose.

Like his earlier vanity vehicles 'Reform' is a single issue party - immigration.

Now okay, many people are motivated by that; but I wonder how many really appreciate what their health policies would mean? A return to treatment depending on what folk can afford? I wonder how many appreciate what their tax policies would mean? Making the 'Kwar crash' budget look Stalinist by comparison? I wonder how many appreciate what their environmental policies would mean? A virtual free for all for the fossil fuel industry?

Same applies to education, public services and pretty much every other aspect of their manifesto.

Farage is an experienced campaigner. We've been witnessing his 'avoid-questions-by-discrediting-the-questioner' routine for years. His endless 'infamy, infamy, they've all got it infamy' conspiracy theorising. His attempts to normalise bigotry by claiming it's merely 'what the man in the pub is saying'.

However an individual with well documented links to dangerously right wing organisations and bleats about left wing violence whilst waving away the attempted Jan sixth terrorist coup as irrelevant is, in reality, a far more sinister version of Boris the Liar.

I'm struggling to see any "good" in his party. Whilst "clownish" doesn't come close to describing those who'd vote for it "regardless" of candidates from whom even Farage distances himself and the impact it'd have on their every day lives...

This post has been edited by The Earl of Chesterfield: 15 June 2024 - 08:13 AM

[Holmesc1]

The Earl of Chesterfield, on 15 June 2024 - 08:04 AM, said:

Fair enough call.

And I'd add dismissing Farage and his followers as "clowns" is dismissing the genuine threat they pose.

Like his earlier vanity vehicles 'Reform' is a single issue party - immigration.

Now okay, many people are motivated by that; but I wonder how many really appreciate what their health policies would mean? A return to treatment depending on what folk can afford? I wonder how many appreciate what their tax policies would mean? Making the 'Kwar crash' budget look Stalinist by comparison? I wonder how many appreciate what their environmental policies would mean? A virtual free for all for the fossil fuel industry?

Same applies to education, public services and pretty much every other aspect of their manifesto.

Farage is an experienced campaigner. We've been witnessing his 'avoid-questions-by-discrediting-the-questioner' routine for years. His endless 'infamy, infamy, they've all got it infamy' conspiracy theorising. His attempts to normalise bigotry by claiming it's merely 'what the man in the pub is saying'.

However an individual with well documented links to dangerously right wing organisations and bleats about left wing violence whilst waving away the attempted Jan sixth terrorist coup as irrelevant is, in reality, a far more sinister version of Boris the Liar.

I'm struggling to see any "good" in his party. Whilst "clownish" doesn't come close to describing those who'd vote for it "regardless" of candidates from whom even Farage distances himself and the impact it'd have on their every day lives...

Flamon hell i actually fully agree with you. God help up if this reform wins any seats, another protest party set up up the posh ex tory thats spat his dummy out

[isleaiw1]

The Earl of Chesterfield, on 15 June 2024 - 08:04 AM, said:

Fair enough call.

And I'd add dismissing Farage and his followers as "clowns" is dismissing the genuine threat they pose.

Like his earlier vanity vehicles 'Reform' is a single issue party - immigration.

Now okay, many people are motivated by that; but I wonder how many really appreciate what their health policies would mean? A return to treatment depending on what folk can afford? I wonder how many appreciate what their tax policies would mean? Making the 'Kwar crash' budget look Stalinist by comparison? I wonder how many appreciate what their environmental policies would mean? A virtual free for all for the fossil fuel industry?

Same applies to education, public services and pretty much every other aspect of their manifesto.

Farage is an experienced campaigner. We've been witnessing his 'avoid-questions-by-discrediting-the-questioner' routine for years. His endless 'infamy, infamy, they've all got it infamy' conspiracy theorising. His attempts to normalise bigotry by claiming it's merely 'what the man in the pub is saying'.

However an individual with well documented links to dangerously right wing organisations and bleats about left wing violence whilst waving away the attempted Jan sixth terrorist coup as irrelevant is, in reality, a far more sinister version of Boris the Liar.

I'm struggling to see any "good" in his party. Whilst "clownish" doesn't come close to describing those who'd vote for it "regardless" of candidates from whom even Farage distances himself and the impact it'd have on their every day lives...

To be fair I have heard as many policies from reform from Labour and they haven't issued their promises yet...

And is far right connections as bad as far left, did you say the same about Corbyn and his connections to terrorists or did you vote for him...?

You didn't comment on my earlier post - how will Labour deal with the projected spiralling NHS costs? The future is doing something different. By the way, you aren't so bothered about two tier pension systems which see public sector workers retiring with much more than private sector workers... people getting the food and retirement they can afford.

Sorry, I think Farage is a clown but not everything he says is wrong. And at least he is saying something other than change and growth with no idea how it will happen!

[Mr Mercury]

To suggest that reform are a far right protest party is ignoring the strength of feelings against the main protagonists.

[dim view]

The Earl of Chesterfield, on 15 June 2024 - 08:04 AM, said:

I'm struggling to see any "good" in his party. Whilst "clownish" doesn't come close to describing those who'd vote for it "regardless" of candidates from whom even Farage distances himself and the impact it'd have on their every day lives...

I'd cite Hislop rather than Farage, but things are so bad that maybe the electorate is desperate for somebody decisive to take control, face problems, facilitate change. With the contents of his/her manifesto secondary. Like in Ukraine.

[Mr Mercury]

dim view, on 15 June 2024 - 09:30 AM, said:

I'd cite Hislop rather than Farage, but things are so bad that maybe the electorate is desperate for somebody decisive to take control, face problems, facilitate change. With the contents of his/her manifesto secondary. Like in Ukraine.

In a nut shell!

[Wooden Spoon]

The Earl of Chesterfield, on 15 June 2024 - 08:04 AM, said:

Fair enough call.

And I'd add dismissing Farage and his followers as "clowns" is dismissing the genuine threat they pose.

Like his earlier vanity vehicles 'Reform' is a single issue party - immigration.

Now okay, many people are motivated by that; but I wonder how many really appreciate what their health policies would mean? A return to treatment depending on what folk can afford? I wonder how many appreciate what their tax policies would mean? Making the 'Kwar crash' budget look Stalinist by comparison? I wonder how many appreciate what their environmental policies would mean? A virtual free for all for the fossil fuel industry?

Same applies to education, public services and pretty much every other aspect of their manifesto.

Farage is an experienced campaigner. We've been witnessing his 'avoid-questions-by-discrediting-the-questioner' routine for years. His endless 'infamy, infamy, they've all got it infamy' conspiracy theorising. His attempts to normalise bigotry by claiming it's merely 'what the man in the pub is saying'.

However an individual with well documented links to dangerously right wing organisations and bleats about left wing violence whilst waving away the attempted Jan sixth terrorist coup as irrelevant is, in reality, a far more sinister version of Boris the Liar.

I'm struggling to see any "good" in his party. Whilst "clownish" doesn't come close to describing those who'd vote for it "regardless" of candidates from whom even Farage distances himself and the impact it'd have on their every day lives...

I don?t think he will, but IF Farage did win his seat I can see him at some point crossing over to the tories and leading them

[Johnnyspireite7]

Wooden Spoon, on 15 June 2024 - 10:28 AM, said:

I don?t think he will, but IF Farage did win his seat I can see him at some point crossing over to the tories and leading them

And, IF there are any moderate Tories left, if he did they'll cross over to Labour or Lib Dem in protest as they don't like the ex-BNP member! Someone's found pictures from the 1970's of him out on the campaign trail for them.

[isleaiw1]

Johnnyspireite7, on 15 June 2024 - 10:47 AM, said:

And, IF there are any moderate Tories left, if he did they'll cross over to Labour or Lib Dem in protest as they don't like the ex-BNP member! Someone's found pictures from the 1970's of him out on the campaign trail for them.

Like the moderate Labour MPs did when they had a leader who supported terrorists?

They will stay where they are and carry on taking their pay, saying hear hear from time to time, voting how they are told, and attending a few constituency things so they get voted in next time....

[Mr Mercury]

Wooden Spoon, on 15 June 2024 - 10:28 AM, said:

I don?t think he will, but IF Farage did win his seat I can see him at some point crossing over to the tories and leading them

Not sure about Clacton but I think the split vote for Ashfield could well see Labour sneak in through the back door there. Driving around the area there?s a hell of a lot of promotional posters for Anderson?s Reform party but also plenty for Jason Zadrozny, the Independant candidate, yet I?ve not seen a single one for the Tories or Labour, remarkable for Labour in that constituency really! Anyway, JZ is apparently held in high regard in the area serving the local Lib Dem?s as a councillor for many years then losing by only 192 votes to Gloria de Pieros Labour in 2010. He left the Lib Dem?s after facing unfounded child sex allegations that were subsequently dropped and finished second, above Labour, and only behind Anderson?s Tories in 2019. It?ll certainly be an interesting night there.

[The Earl of Chesterfield]

dim view, on 15 June 2024 - 09:30 AM, said:

I'd cite Hislop rather than Farage, but things are so bad that maybe the electorate is desperate for somebody decisive to take control, face problems, facilitate change. With the contents of his/her manifesto secondary. Like in Ukraine.

The last thing Farage wants is actual power.

To be held accountable for his promises.

And anyone doubting that only has to remember how he 'fled the scene of the crime' the morning after the Brexit vote...

[The Earl of Chesterfield]

Wooden Spoon, on 15 June 2024 - 10:28 AM, said:

I don?t think he will, but IF Farage did win his seat I can see him at some point crossing over to the tories and leading them

There'll be full scale civil war in the Tory party this summer.

We've already seen a number of the more obnoxious characters positioning themselves - with Andrea Jenkins even issuing election leaflets pictured with Farage.

Just take a minute for that to sink in. Whilst vast swathes of conservative candidates mention neither their party nor leader in literature, she openly allies herself to one of another.

Imagine the Mail-esque media headlines were that a Labour figure alongside, say, an outspoken pro Palestinian.

Oh, wait...

As you quite accurately state though, it's most likely the Right will emerge victorious. A party run by Farage, Rees-Mogg, Braverman and their ugly ilk.

Leaving Labour by far the most moderate, mainstream option in British politics.

Thatcher once said her proudest legacy was Tony Blair. Thanks to the corruption he legitimised and individuals elected in his wake, it's very possible Boris the Liar's will be the death of the Tories...

This post has been edited by The Earl of Chesterfield: 15 June 2024 - 12:20 PM

[isleaiw1]

Edited as I can't read!

Although can we coin Mirroresque as a term to extreme biased reporting too?

This post has been edited by isleaiw1: 15 June 2024 - 12:44 PM

[dart in the crossbar]

The Earl of Chesterfield, on 15 June 2024 - 12:19 PM, said:

There'll be full scale civil war in the Tory party this summer.

We've already seen a number of the more obnoxious characters positioning themselves - with Andrea Jenkins even issuing election leaflets pictured with Farage.

Just take a minute for that to sink in. Whilst vast swathes of conservative candidates mention neither their party nor leader in literature, she openly allies herself to one of another.

Imagine the Mail-esque media headlines were that a Labour figure alongside, say, an outspoken pro Palestinian.

Oh, wait...

As you quite accurately state though, it's most likely the Right will emerge victorious. A party run by Farage, Rees-Mogg, Braverman and their ugly ilk.

Leaving Labour by far the most moderate, mainstream option in British politics.

Thatcher once said her proudest legacy was Tony Blair. Thanks to the corruption he legitimised and individuals elected in his wake, it's very possible Boris the Liar's will be the death of the Tories...

Given that it's fairly likely that the next UK government will have a harder job of staying in power in 5 years times that getting into power now, a centrist opposition is more important now that before.

Whilst the 'Let's go fkn mental' esque type of politics that led to Brexit and Johnson and Truss and Farage might sate the desire for a 'none of the above' political anarchy, it's no way to provide a credible opposition.

Odd as it might seem, the state of the next opposition is just as importnat as the state of the next government. Hopefully the one nation Tories of Stewart, Greening et al will regain control and shape a credible centre right Conservative (or Liberal) Party quickly.

Sadly, I suspect that we'll be faced with more of a 'Let's fk them up' type hard right opposition and political alternative in 5 years.

[dim view]

The Earl of Chesterfield, on 15 June 2024 - 12:00 PM, said:

The last thing Farage wants is actual power.

To be held accountable for his promises.

And anyone doubting that only has to remember how he 'fled the scene of the crime' the morning after the Brexit vote...

Heyup pal.
As I'm sure you've read, Kuenssburg thinks that Farage's heroic goal is to destroy the Tory Party.

[Wooden Spoon]

Johnnyspireite7, on 15 June 2024 - 10:47 AM, said:

And, IF there are any moderate Tories left, if he did they'll cross over to Labour or Lib Dem in protest as they don't like the ex-BNP member! Someone's found pictures from the 1970's of him out on the campaign trail for them.

Farage was ex BNP? I didn?t know that

[Wooden Spoon]

He wasn?t channel 4 fact checked see link


https://www.channel4...-national-front

[Mr Mercury]

The Earl of Chesterfield, on 15 June 2024 - 08:04 AM, said:

Fair enough call.

And I'd add dismissing Farage and his followers as "clowns" is dismissing the genuine threat they pose.

Like his earlier vanity vehicles 'Reform' is a single issue party - immigration.

Now okay, many people are motivated by that; but I wonder how many really appreciate what their health policies would mean? A return to treatment depending on what folk can afford? I wonder how many appreciate what their tax policies would mean? Making the 'Kwar crash' budget look Stalinist by comparison? I wonder how many appreciate what their environmental policies would mean? A virtual free for all for the fossil fuel industry?

Same applies to education, public services and pretty much every other aspect of their manifesto.

Farage is an experienced campaigner. We've been witnessing his 'avoid-questions-by-discrediting-the-questioner' routine for years. His endless 'infamy, infamy, they've all got it infamy' conspiracy theorising. His attempts to normalise bigotry by claiming it's merely 'what the man in the pub is saying'.

However an individual with well documented links to dangerously right wing organisations and bleats about left wing violence whilst waving away the attempted Jan sixth terrorist coup as irrelevant is, in reality, a far more sinister version of Boris the Liar.

I'm struggling to see any "good" in his party. Whilst "clownish" doesn't come close to describing those who'd vote for it "regardless" of candidates from whom even Farage distances himself and the impact it'd have on their every day lives...

So those who voted for Brexit were ?conned and hoodwinked??
Those who voted for Boris were ?duped by get ?Brexit done? and the Mailesque media.
Those who vote Tory this time are possibly “morally bankrupt” and happy to support liars and Charlatans?
And those who vote Reform this time, well ?clownish doesn?t come close to describing those who?d vote for it?? I?d imagine your buzz words of bigot, barely concealed racist etc would be your way of describing them? Apologies if wrong..
Then you had the audacity to claim in a previous post that the list of posters who won?t debate with you grows ever longer! I wonder why?

This post has been edited by Mr Mercury: 15 June 2024 - 05:29 PM