[Blue roan lily]

Doolan, on 20 June 2024 - 07:08 PM, said:

We are crying out for someone with passion who can actually whip these so called players into shape. Southgate is scared of his own shadow so no wonder we hear these rumours (and admittedly they are just rumours at this point) that he has lost the dressing room. We are crying out for someone who understands what it means to be English for example Sean Dyche or Tony Mowbray

It certainly looks like he?s ?lost The dressing room?
The players looked disinterested
I?d rather have the passion of Paul Cook on the touch line
He would rev them up

[philly8mt]

We have all watched a lot better last season. Absolute joke of a performance!
On the plus side, surely that is as bad as it gets?

This post has been edited by philly8mt: 20 June 2024 - 07:56 PM

[Doolan]

Don?t think so mate unfortunately. By all accounts a lot of the players were very very put out that graelish wasn?t chosen for the squad and have basically downed tools. Jude fraudingham is not helping matters as well due to how he is disrespectful of the likes of Pickford due to how he plays for Madrid now and Pickford plays for Everton. Like I say, not gospel but just what I?ve heard from ppl who are out there

[s42blue]

 Bonnyman, on 20 June 2024 - 07:09 PM, said:

Grigg has kanes pace

And yet still scores 25 in NL?.

[s42blue]

 Doolan, on 20 June 2024 - 08:27 PM, said:

Don?t think so mate unfortunately. By all accounts a lot of the players were very very put out that graelish wasn?t chosen for the squad and have basically downed tools. Jude fraudingham is not helping matters as well due to how he is disrespectful of the likes of Pickford due to how he plays for Madrid now and Pickford plays for Everton. Like I say, not gospel but just what I?ve heard from ppl who are out there

Whilst I don?t believe any of that really; if they down tools because a player hasn?t been picked then they have no pride or respect for their country. I?d rather play a team that loves to play for England, tries but fails than that performance. Maybe it?s not impossible to them. It should be.

[Bluekent]

It?s down to the manager ain?t it!? It?s got to be , zero chance that that front 4?s default position is to sit in as soon as we go ahead. It?s clearly the tactics given to them. It?s happened in all the tournaments he?s managed us in. Imagine having that array of talent at your disposal then choosing to sit in 20 minutes in to your second group game. Pathetic. We progressively got deeper against Serbia but last night it was instant. Don?t get me wrong we need to be better on the ball , some awful touches/passing , even our goal came from a poor decision from Walker , it was only a lucky deflection that put it into kanes path but the players just don?t look comfortable playing the way the manager clearly wants them to.

[hilly81]

Bluekent, on 21 June 2024 - 06:26 AM, said:

It?s down to the manager ain?t it!? It?s got to be , zero chance that that front 4?s default position is to sit in as soon as we go ahead. It?s clearly the tactics given to them. It?s happened in all the tournaments he?s managed us in. Imagine having that array of talent at your disposal then choosing to sit in 20 minutes in to your second group game. Pathetic. We progressively got deeper against Serbia but last night it was instant. Don?t get me wrong we need to be better on the ball , some awful touches/passing , even our goal came from a poor decision from Walker , it was only a lucky deflection that put it into kanes path but the players just don?t look comfortable playing the way the manager clearly wants them to.

Just imagine being Kyle Walker, Phil Foden, Jude Bellingham etc. Playing week in, week out for two of the most elite coaches of all time in Guardiola and Ancelotti. Tactical geniuses. Then having to play under Southgate for the national team. I like Gaz, genuinely. He made the England squad a better place to be. He got the players wanting to play for England again and built huge rapport with the fans that had eroded away under the previous managers. But he is completely out of his depth tactically. He perhaps should be on the coaching staff at best. Organising the blow up's for in the swimming pool and putting the cones out etc. He deserved another tournament after the semi in 2018 but after 2020(21), he should have moved on.

[DOUGLAS JARDINE]

 Walton Spireite, on 20 June 2024 - 04:59 PM, said:

Garbage

33 man squad takes one recognised left back and he?s been out injured

Shoehorns players in to the team instead of playing them in their natural position

Foden for example just put him on the bench and rotate him with Bellingham for the last 30mins plays as afresh player in the position he has won player of the year in

Playing a right back at left back cost us in 2000 with Phil Neville

Our shape and balance is atrocious and this idiot has the best players we probably ever had and still screwing it up

Wish he would just go

This post has been edited by DOUGLAS JARDINE: 21 June 2024 - 07:58 AM

[Phil V 72]

Leicester appeared to be all over Potter until the last week or so, wonder if he?s had the nod?

[Phil V 72]

 Bluekent, on 21 June 2024 - 06:26 AM, said:

It?s down to the manager ain?t it!? It?s got to be , zero chance that that front 4?s default position is to sit in as soon as we go ahead. It?s clearly the tactics given to them. It?s happened in all the tournaments he?s managed us in. Imagine having that array of talent at your disposal then choosing to sit in 20 minutes in to your second group game. Pathetic. We progressively got deeper against Serbia but last night it was instant. Don?t get me wrong we need to be better on the ball , some awful touches/passing , even our goal came from a poor decision from Walker , it was only a lucky deflection that put it into kanes path but the players just don?t look comfortable playing the way the manager clearly wants them to.

Bobby Robson used to say that international players don?t really need coaching, the manager just picks the team and organises. It surely can?t be beyond players like Rice, Foden and Bellingham to affect the game if things aren?t right, despite the manager and instructions.


After years of playing fearless football, the fear seems to have returned. The weight of the England shirt suddenly seems too much for some of these players.

[JonB]

Problem is we're not overly flush with left backs. Lot of the top 6\7 dont have english left backs then you are looking at the likes of Chilwell but he's hardly been a regular and had injuries this season. That said the lack of a natural left back to fill the left hand side when we attack has made the way Foden hasnt got involved much look worse. It is time to end the TAA trial in midfield and then its a case of how you change it....play a mainoo\gallagher\wharton in there with Rice or potentially stifle Bellinghams attacking by starting him a bit deeper alongside Rice to play Foden central and bring someone else in on the left like Eze (i'm not a Gordon fan, just seems to run a lot).

One thing that has to change is our passing, last night no matter what else happened that was woeful and contributed a lot to how we got stuck in our own half. Their goal came from Kane playing a mindless crossfield pass that was nowhere near its intended target.

Not sure what Potter is thinking he can get in terms of a job, he turned down Leicester once before when they gave it to the bloke who is now at Chelsea and he's turned down Ajax. I'd pick Potter over Howe who would also likely be in the running....for all the glowing stuff about Howe he ran off from Burnley when it got tough and taking Bournemouth to the prem was based on the backing of a wealthy owner chucking money at it breaking FFP in the process.

This post has been edited by JonB: 21 June 2024 - 08:21 AM

[whittman]

After the last round of matches we could still finish 3rd in the group and probably just scrape into the quarter finals

That would certainly change who we play and leave us more exposed to teams who look as though they are
actually enjoying playing for their countries and will expose our current tactics

OH dear THEY rather than IT will certainly be coming home unless there is a massive mindset change

[hilly81]

whittman, on 21 June 2024 - 08:20 AM, said:

After the last round of matches we could still finish 3rd in the group and probably just scrape into the quarter finals

That would certainly change who we play and leave us more exposed to teams who look as though they are
actually enjoying playing for their countries and will expose our current tactics

OH dear THEY rather than IT will certainly be coming home unless there is a massive mindset change

What?? If we finish 3rd it's time for them to get on the beach.

Edit: Didn't realise the 4 best placed 3rd placed teams also qualify. Apologies.

This post has been edited by hilly81: 21 June 2024 - 08:27 AM

[clarevoyant.]

You have to question when all and sundry can see the problems, what do the coaching staff see, surely they all can't be of the same mindset or is Southgate such an authoritarian person (I doubt it) that their input is minimal?

Or maybe it's all a big ruse, giving the teams we should meet later a false impression and we then go all guns a blazing and catch them on the hop.

[whittman]

hilly81, on 21 June 2024 - 08:26 AM, said:

What?? If we finish 3rd it's time for them to get on the beach.

Edit: Didn't realise the 4 best placed 3rd placed teams also qualify. Apologies.

no problem hilly 81 its just the players coming out with the soundbites yesterday that we are still top of the group after a performance like that made me smile but angry as well

they of course have to be seen to be singing from the same hymn sheet lol

[sophocles]

 whittman, on 21 June 2024 - 08:41 AM, said:

no problem hilly 81 its just the players coming out with the soundbites yesterday that we are still top of the group after a performance like that made me smile but angry as well

they of course have to be seen to be singing from the same hymn sheet lol

In case you hadn't noticed, England ARE top of the group, two points clear.

[Bald magician]

 sophocles, on 21 June 2024 - 08:54 AM, said:

In case you hadn't noticed, England ARE top of the group, two points clear.

Exactly. I didn't expect to win all three group games.It wasn't great yesterday but I'm off the mindset it will only get better. No drama

[Valley Blues]

 Phil V 72, on 21 June 2024 - 08:06 AM, said:

Bobby Robson used to say that international players don?t really need coaching, the manager just picks the team and organises. It surely can?t be beyond players like Rice, Foden and Bellingham to affect the game if things aren?t right, despite the manager and instructions.


After years of playing fearless football, the fear seems to have returned. The weight of the England shirt suddenly seems too much for some of these players.

Kyle Walker said they haven?t been instructed to drop deep and Southgate himself said he hadn?t given them the instruction to drop deep.

So who made the decision?

Kane on-field because he doesn?t press from the front?

And you?re spot on with your first paragraph. These are experienced players playing international football.
I?ve got a 15 year old lad who?s manager has told me at half time in games he?s said if somethings not working and how they need to change it up.

If a 15 year old can see it when on the field I?m not having international players can?t.

[Phil V 72]

 JonB, on 21 June 2024 - 08:19 AM, said:

Problem is we're not overly flush with left backs. Lot of the top 6\7 dont have english left backs then you are looking at the likes of Chilwell but he's hardly been a regular and had injuries this season. That said the lack of a natural left back to fill the left hand side when we attack has made the way Foden hasnt got involved much look worse. It is time to end the TAA trial in midfield and then its a case of how you change it....play a mainoo\gallagher\wharton in there with Rice or potentially stifle Bellinghams attacking by starting him a bit deeper alongside Rice to play Foden central and bring someone else in on the left like Eze (i'm not a Gordon fan, just seems to run a lot).

One thing that has to change is our passing, last night no matter what else happened that was woeful and contributed a lot to how we got stuck in our own half. Their goal came from Kane playing a mindless crossfield pass that was nowhere near its intended target.

Not sure what Potter is thinking he can get in terms of a job, he turned down Leicester once before when they gave it to the bloke who is now at Chelsea and he's turned down Ajax. I'd pick Potter over Howe who would also likely be in the running....for all the glowing stuff about Howe he ran off from Burnley when it got tough and taking Bournemouth to the prem was based on the backing of a wealthy owner chucking money at it breaking FFP in the process.

We need to bring in a player who?s used to playing in a team that?s a shambles, time for Kobbie Mainoo 😂

[The Earl of Chesterfield]

Southgate's restored England to the game's top tier. We now not only expect to qualify for major tournaments - which certainly wasn't the case before - but expect to reach the semis at least.

But he might be remembered as the manager who failed because he didn't try instead of the manager who tried but failed...

This post has been edited by The Earl of Chesterfield: 21 June 2024 - 10:39 AM